[Podcast] Web3, NFTs & The Metaverse with Kostas K.

What does Web3 mean for brands & creatives? What about NFTs and the Metaverse?

We break it all down for you in layman’s terms, with special guest Konstantinos Kollias, co-founder of The Forest.

We go over the fundamentals of Web3 including its definition, why it matters, tokens, the blockchain, cryptocurrency, wallets, and trends in the space.

Plus a discussion around NFTs, what they are (and are not), and the opportunities brands and creatives can tap into such as AR & VR, DeFi, DAOs, Virtual Commerce, Digital Assets including Digital Real Estate, Virtual Worlds, the Metaverse, Mixed Reality Solutions, the Blockchain & the Decentralised Web, and so much more!

Ready to go down the Web3 rabbit hole? Jump in.

Listen Here

Love the show? Please review us on Apple or Stitcher.

 

Play Now

Watch on Youtube

 

Join The Forest NFT Community

The Forest is the first NFT community for designers & creatives. The Forest is more than a community however, it is an educational platform and NFT marketplace that empowers creatives with the knowledge, connections & tools to thrive as NFT & Web3 professionals.

Jacob Cass, the founder of JUST Creative, is one of the co-founders along side our podcast guest, Kostas.

Follow The Forest and JustCreativeEth on Twitter.

Reason to join: This NFT community is for artists, illustrators, and designers looking to become thriving Web3 & NFT creators and is tailored towards beginners.

 

Learn Brand Strategy

Brand Master Secrets helps you become a brand strategist and earn specialist fees. And in my opinion, this is the most comprehensive brand strategy course on the market.

The course gave me all the techniques and processes and more importantly… all the systems and tools I needed to build brand strategies for my clients.

This is the consolidated “fast-track” version to becoming a brand strategist.

I wholeheartedly endorse this course for any designer who wants to become a brand strategist and earn specialist fees.

Check out the 15-minute video about the course, which lays out exactly what you get in the Brand Master Secrets.

Transcript (Auto Generated)

Hello, and welcome to JUST Branding, the only podcast dedicated to helping designers and entrepreneurs grow brands. Here are your hosts, Jacob Cass and Matt Davies.

Hello, and welcome to JUST Branding. Today, we have Konstantinos Kolias with us, otherwise known as Kostas, who’s an ex-agency owner, who’s recently gone all in into the Web3 world, specifically the NFT world. Now, if all this seems a bit daunting to you, don’t worry.

We totally understand, and we’ll be breaking it all down for you in this episode. Well, some of it. There’s a lot.

Anyway, while exploring, we’re gonna explore what opportunities await for creatives and brands, but Web3 is quite vast. There’s AR and VR, there’s DeFi, there’s crypto, there’s DAOs, there’s virtual commerce, NFTs, digital assets, digital real estate, there’s virtual worlds, there’s the metaverse, there’s mixed reality solutions, the blockchain, the decentralized web and so much more. There’s like, it’s a lot.

We’re gonna be talking mainly about NFTs in this episode, but I can say the Web3 is truly exciting. We say that a lot on this podcast, but honestly, there’s so many opportunities on the horizon for creatives and brands. So we’re really excited about that.

But before we go down that rabbit hole, let’s start at the top and welcome Kostas to the show. So welcome Kostas.

Thank you for having Jacob. I’m beyond excited and ready to rock and roll.

Kostas, welcome. Can I just say something at the outset for everybody, including all our listeners, right? I know literally hardly anything about this world, right?

So I hope I’m speak for at least some of our listeners. Maybe I’m the only person that’s like this, but maybe I’m not. So I’m gonna be vulnerable and say it as well.

You’re gonna have to go slow for me today, Kostas. I’m just letting you know that. So welcome anyway.

Thank you. Thank you for that. And I think that’s the appropriate way, considering the whole landscape.

We’re gonna take it slow. We’re gonna take a pace and a slow pace. And I think it’s gonna be a beautiful discussion.

So thank you for that, Matt.

Yeah, great. And also just famous. I’ve been in this world for a couple of weeks now, so also very new.

And Kostas has also come from a creative background as well. So he hasn’t always been in this world. And honestly, it’s only been pretty recently that it’s come onto the radar of most people.

So, you know, take it slow, come with us on the journey. I enjoy the journey and, you know, have some humility, I guess, when it comes to it all. So there’s a lot of opportunities.

My bag is packed. I’m ready to go.

Let’s go. We are gonna start at the top. So Kostas, let’s just start with you and your, you know, who you are, a little bit of a backstory, how you fell into this world, just so we have context moving into this.

Absolutely. So I’m not an ex creative agency owner. I’m a creative agency owner.

My agency is ongoing. So yeah, some people they see because of my passion and my interaction with NFTs, they feel like I gave up everything. I cannot give up creativity.

I mean, that’s, you know. I cannot, I just cannot give up creativity. I think we all in the creative world and we love what we do.

You know, for me, it’s content creation, food photography, food videography, and we have a specialty, cinemagraphs, which is like a still photo that you capture some movement. So it’s a hybrid between the video and the photo. So that’s the special of my agency, but we love to create content, especially for hospitality businesses to capture their love for the product and to communicate it to their audience.

So that’s the main thing. And my agency is located in New York City, the last five years, and I have been in the restaurant industry as well. Pretty much all the Greeks, we go through this boot camp of life, working in the restaurant industry.

And we love hospitality, we love people. And whatever I learned to apply in my agency kind of came up from me being the manager of a restaurant, understand the semantics of running a business with multiple fronts and multiple problems at the same time. So I didn’t know that I had it in me, but I just have to persevere and present myself to solve problems and that became my lifestyle, solving problems.

And then I realized there’s something there with the food photography and the creative world. And I come from a business background, I’ve graduated from business school. So marketing, business, sales was always my forte.

So here I am now as a creative agency owner, be always on top of the trends. And that’s something I say to everybody, it’s like whatever you do in the creative industry, you have to be always on top of the trends. And the latest trend right now, the last, intensively the last two years, I will say, is the crypto world, the Metaverse, the NFT, and all these beautiful things that we’re going to discuss today.

So lately my latest initiative, which by the way, I don’t know if Jacob can I reveal that you’re somehow a part of it, as one of the first founding members of our DAO, we’re building, and for those who don’t know the word DAO, we’re gonna explain it as well. Matt, bear with me, I’m sorry, sometimes the passwords are coming up from my mouth.

Right, I’m gonna write this, we need like a, what is it, what was this word you said that I’ve never heard of?

DAO, DAO, DAO, it means like, it’s like a Japanese how, the DAO, you know, it’s like decentralized, autonomous organization. And Jacob, he’s a part of this beautiful initiative we’re building community that we’re gonna discuss later on. So yeah, I’m ready to learn from you and we’ll learn from each other today.

I doubt there’s much I can teach you in the space Kostas, but.

Well, you know, let me tell you something. Your questions, your questions, Matt, will be a learning experience for me. So that’s what I’m learning from you, because the more I learn how to communicate what I do in a very simple manner, that’s a learning experience for me as well.

So thank you in advance for that.

I think there’s some old wise like saying is in there that you haven’t actually learned anything properly until you’ve taught somebody else, right? So I think there’s a lot of truth in what you just said. And yeah, great.

One teaches, two learn. Nice.

Nicely said, nicely said.

I didn’t make that up.

That’s all you’re going to get from me today. That’s it, I’m done, I’m dry.

All right, so let’s start with the fundamentals, because Web3 is a new term that’s come up. Basically we’ve come from Web1, Web2 and now we’re Web3. Kostas, just give us a brief rundown of where we’ve come from, Web1 and now Web3.

It’s always my favorite topic to start with. What is Web3? Everybody’s talking about Web3.

If I go back in time in 1994, 1995, when the Internet has been introduced to the world, that was the very first version of the Web, the Web1. That was purely see what’s going on, and it was purely about consuming the screens and the content. You remember yahoo.com, the Netscape Navigator browsers and all this stuff.

It was all about content consumption, reading the news and learning new things, and be excited about the information from your screen. That was the Web1. The Web2 that somehow started becoming a part of our lives from 2000 and after, I will say, it was about consume the content, but also create content.

All these platforms that came up, the social media from MySpace and later on Facebook and everything, and platforms like medium.com that you can create your own blog. Tumblr, that was like a content creation platforms for you to communicate the world, what you want to communicate. The Web2 was about consuming content and creating content.

Now, the Web3 that we’re living right now, I mean, the Web2 is very active, of course, and it’s going to be there forever. But the Web3, it’s about consuming content, creating content, and owning that content. Ownership wasn’t so present before when you were trying to communicate things.

It was just an aspiration or an opinion. Now, with the ownership dynamic, it gives you more empowerment to what you do as a content creator. It gives you a new perspective how you can establish yourself.

It’s not as an authority what you do as somebody who feel as important enough for the people to communicate your wisdom. So the ownership here, it’s the new part of the Web3. This happens very simply with the elimination of the middleman.

Before, we were creating content, we’re still creating content through all these platforms. We didn’t have a way just to say, this is my content, post something on Twitter and say, that’s a tweet in my account, it’s mine, but nobody knows if it’s yours. Maybe you copied from somebody else.

Now you have to imagine the Twitter platform on the Web3 without a server, a Twitter server. You have to think it now in many different parts, the decentralization that we will explain later on, that your information somehow, once you apply it, it goes with an ownership certificate. Every time you create content, immediately you own it.

Whatever that is, it can be a video content, it can be a copy, it can be artwork. So the ownership is the big, big factor here in the Web3.

Can I ask a stupid question? Web2, right, was, in my view, okay. Why do I want to own my content?

Just explain that to me.

Because it’s your life’s work, because it’s who you are. Who we are, it’s basically on how we communicate ourselves to the world. People need to remember us.

Now, that’s my personal opinion. There’s not like a universal explanation why we need to own. So I’m gonna give you my explanation and my appreciation of this situation, which is we are getting in a big competition, especially in the creative world.

I’m gonna speak to the creative world since we are all creatives. There’s so many different things coming up and nobody can claim where it’s coming from. And eventually this is getting saturated.

It’s losing its value because of the overwhelmingness, the overload of information, and we’re losing also the sense of ownership there because somehow something we say or something we post it or something we created, it’s getting lost in the sea of overwhelmingness. Now, with the ownership, you create something, it can be a thought, it can be an artwork, it can be whatever you want to create. The ownership gives you this empowerment that you can do something with it.

And this is where people are starting appreciating everything we do, because correct me if I’m wrong, guys. Let’s take it from your perspective. We are creators, we are building stuff on a daily basis, post on LinkedIn and the photos on Instagram, you know?

How strong we feel about this content. It’s just like something we do as a behavioral externalization. I posted something, I wrote something, you know?

Do we sense the power of the ownerships or we just post it because it’s a part of what we do? And eventually it’s going to fade away as value. What do you think about that?

I hadn’t honestly thought about it, to be honest. What do you think, Richard? Yeah, it’s just actually something we do.

I’ve never really thought like, you know, someone else owns that content. I’ve always been an advisor, not advisable, I’ve always preached that you should own your own platform, right? Your own website and your own email list versus, you know, social media platforms where, you know, you’re at the peril of their algorithms versus something you own.

So in a way, that’s how I can relate to Web3 and ownership and the value that’s behind it. What’s your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, it’s a deep question. And frankly, I wasn’t quite ready for it, to be honest, Kostas. I think my gut says, do you want my honest opinion?

My gut says that for me, I mean, I just take myself, so I’m a consultant, right? So I put stuff out all the time on LinkedIn, mainly Instagram a bit. And what do I think about that?

Why do I do that? I do that, frankly, for profile building, right? For myself.

Now, do I look at that and think I own that? Does it bother me? I don’t technically own it and I’m putting it on LinkedIn.

I don’t know. For example, the power for me is in the fact that that’s a community building platform and other people are looking at that, connecting to me through that platform, right? I don’t really worry too much about that content myself, but I haven’t really thought about it, Kostas.

So maybe I need to be a bit more thoughtful about this.

I think that’s a great point. I don’t know.

Yeah. But if you said to me, Matt, there’s this other platform over here, there’s loads of people on it, everyone loves you, and you can still do the same thing, but you own everything and no one can copy you, then hey, maybe I’d be thinking that there’s some value in that. But at the moment, I don’t know enough.

So Kostas, can I ask you, like, why does Web3 matter, and you know, particularly for brands and creatives?

I think going back to Matt’s point that he hasn’t really thought about the ownership of his content, it’s a huge thought provocation that we need to do to ourselves. Like, our lives work. What do we do in our life?

Who we are? How we communicate ourselves in the social media, with clients, consulting, workshops. Do we want to be one more cog in this wheel, this engine?

Or do we want to be our unique element that would bring the unique value to our clients or to the people? Now listen, giving content to the world is an amazing thing. That means that we want to share this.

Eventually, we need an outcome from this information exchange. But the way the information goes out there right now, it’s getting saturated and it’s losing its value. By the time you’re going to understand that something you came up, you just posted it on Instagram, on LinkedIn, on Twitter, something, it’s something very important for you.

Like this is who you are. Once you take a step back before you post something, something very important for you that you want to share with the people. Once you claim the intellectual ownership of this, the empowerment is going to allow you to create more, to develop more strategies, to become more creative.

I think ownership is empowering and because of the fact that information is getting diluted because it’s so much, where do we start? I mean, if you go to NFT right now to read about NFTs, like thousands of articles, where do you start from? That’s a challenge for me as well, because I’m learning about NFTs.

But for me, owning the information you just posted or you just shared, it’s very powerful if we start thinking the ownership as a main establishment strategy eventually for all of us and for the brands. Now, to your question, Jacob, about why we have three matters to the brands is because the competition is, it’s feisty. There’s so much competition about everything right now.

Everything has been invented. Everything is out there. There’s no any more genesis of an idea.

Maybe it’s going to be the web forum, maybe we’re going to find the wheel while we’re trying to communicate. It’s going to be there, something like that. But what I see right now is that pretty much we feel that everything has been invented.

Everything is out there. So what we’re going to present to people is it’s an other version of something existing based on our own unique mindset. And that’s also creation and how we create.

We research, we take information. The brands, they have an existing landscape, they have an existing ecosystem. But there’s a lot of strategy of copying between the brands.

They make this shoe, we have to make something similar. Eventually, you see the same shoe in another brand. And you don’t appreciate the shoe.

You just say, yeah, I can find this in this brand and this brand. You know, but if you claim in the Web3 that this is my unique technology and I own it, it doesn’t matter if you copy it. People know that I did it.

And eventually, that’s what matters. In the long scheme of things, this is what matters. Who came with the idea first?

Because your idea is going to be most likely copied. Your idea is going to be most likely in other versions. But claiming the ownership, it doesn’t make you so sad eventually.

Because imagine you build, you create the Mona Lisa, and then you see 9,000 Mona Lisa’s and say, but I did it first. Who cares? We don’t know you.

No, I did it first. There it is. Oh, oh, you did it first.

Yes, I see you now, my friend. It’s establishment. It’s your authority.

Establishment is how you want, how further you want to go with information you possess. So the branch right now, they’re building their own Metaverse, their own NFTs for this specific reason, to start owning all those elements around the brand.

And just another lens, I think, that helps is value, right? The value of an original, you know, the Mona Lisa is going to be worth so much more to an art collector, even though you could go to an art, like a knockoff shop and get a, you know, a printout. And there’s thousands of printouts of the Mona Lisa, but that’s not worth as much, right?

This is not original, it’s a printout. So that’s the kind of lens I see this through, is the value that’s associated to the ownership of the…

Definitely can see it in the art world. I think in the arts world where people are creating pieces of art, you know, as you say, there’s a massive desire to own the original, right? So I get that in some way.

I also find it a little strange, if I’m honest, because we’re talking about digital files here. So if, let’s just, let me just put this point out here and see what you think of this, Kostas. Let’s take that example of the Mona Lisa, right?

If I owned the original Mona Lisa, I could hang it in my living room and you would see the real paint marks where, and all of the beauty of everything about it, the canvas, the frame, the way the light glinted off it and all of that, because I have the original one, right? Now, if you’ve got a printout of that, it’s never gonna be the same. You never quite gonna be the same.

Even if it was a good copy, you’d feel a bit cheap, wouldn’t you? It’s having it, it’s not gonna be the same. But when it comes to digital artwork, and maybe we could just talk about this for a second.

So I’ve got a non-original piece of artwork that I’m looking at on my computer, experiencing it digitally. Is there any difference between that knockoff and the genuine one, which is packed in an NFT that’s connected to Jacob, for example? And is it just the fact that he can say, well, I own the original because I’ve paid the money for it, but you can still experience exactly the same thing, Matt.

And it’s just the concept of ownership that becomes the thing of value. What are your thoughts?

That’s a great question, Matt. And I can tell you this, going to the Mona Lisa, let’s think of the Mona Lisa in the analogy of the digital version, okay? Let’s say we are in a party, me, you and Jacob, and we’re talking about with other people, you know?

And people see in my house, the Mona Lisa say, oh, is this the original? I’ll say, yeah, absolutely, it’s original. And Matt goes, no, I have the original.

And Jacob say, what are you talking about? I have the original. Well, I’ll say, guys, all right, can you please show me the record of ownership or from the very first, from Mr. Leonardo da Vinci?

I have it somewhere or I don’t have it. I have it, it’s right there. And that’s what NFT is.

I mean, we make a shortcut right now, all right? What NFT is in the real life, you know? So you have to think, it doesn’t matter how many copies there are out there.

Once you can claim the original, it kind of dismisses all this blurriness around knockoffs. You make people feel uneasy and you kind of, they feel like shameful. See, oh my God, he has the original.

I didn’t know that. I thought I had the original or somebody told me I had the original. It’s obviously not the original.

And that happened with digital copies. You can create a beautiful profile picture, you know, with sunglasses of Matt on a beach, you know, somewhere in Aruba and say, that’s the original Matt Davies in Aruba. And Jacob says, I have the original Matt Davies in Aruba.

You know? Or I can say, that’s nonsense. I have it because I find a copy and say, guys, show me the owners, the record of owners.

They’re saying, we don’t have this, who cares? I say, well, there it is. Boom.

So as long as you can, in this world of copy and stealing and this world of people claiming other people’s work, which is, I think it’s cute guys, right? This, it’s kind of out of control what people are claiming it’s theirs by changing maybe some small things, and just say, that’s mine. Once you can claim that, not my friend, it can be your perspective of my original, but that’s not the original.

It can be perspective though. I give you that. It can be your approach in what I did originally.

So the originality, the authenticity, the ownership, it’s gonna change everything, the way we’re thinking and the way we’re doing. And instead of just going what we do right now as a behavior, just copying the JPEG and say, I have it too, who cares? Well, I can assure you eventually people care because it’s a different thing to buy the original, and it’s a different thing to buy a copy when you know it’s copy.

So I think it happens in the real world as well, right? It’s a different thing to buy an original Jacob Cass, and it’s another thing to buy a knockoff of Jacob Cass.

Absolutely. I just want to correct you on one thing, Kostas. I would never go to a party with Jacob.

I’m just putting that out there. I’m kidding. I’m kidding.

I’m kidding. No, I get it. So ownership.

So here’s a question for you, right? So in this magical world of Web3, we’ve got ownership, something that I can, you know, I’d love to understand how this works, but I get it. Like I create something, it’s connected to me, even if it gets copied, basically there’s something to me.

Do I get anything out of it? Like, can I get royalties out of it? Like, or is it a fact that I can protect it somehow?

So if you copied it, can I come after you? Like, how does that, how do you sort of see that side of things working? Is it a protection element to this?

Is there a protection element? That’s a great question. I mean, as you know, it’s a very young industry.

I think there is a lot of consideration about a lot of things. And intellectual property is a big thing. Copywriting is a big thing.

What I suggest that, what I advise the people I connect with around the NFT world is like, it’s not enough to have the original digital copy. You know, you have to create something out of it. You have to create a story behind the brand, a project, just to make it more substantial, more substantial in what you’re building.

Because if it’s just something itself, it’s subject to be copyrighted with some adjustments. And then people are getting diluted around the value, like Jacob said. So for me, the way I see things like the golden recipe here is like, if you want to go seriously about NFT artwork or NFT business, have a lawyer.

And still the lows and the regulars kind of gray area, as I told you, there’s a lot of thinking going on, you know? But I will say in one or two years from now, things are going to be pretty clear, you know? And the ownership itself, it’s going to prove a lot of things eventually, you know?

Because I’ll tell you an example. Let’s say that there’s an original artwork of something, you know, which is copyrighted. And based on that, I got an aspiration that created something similar based on that artwork.

And I have ownership of that artwork. The guy or somebody who has the authentic copyright about this thing, about the formulas and the patents can come after me, even when I have the NFT ownership. So it doesn’t really matter anything.

So you can have aspirations about your artwork, but ownership itself, that’s something we need to know and be aware for the audience, is not enough if you want to go big, big, you know? So you need to be aware about the laws, you need to be aware if you use something from somebody who just copyrighted, be aware that there are laws that are protecting it, that the people with the copyright. So I think that goes in all walks of life, you know?

So we need to be aware about what’s the landscape, the legal landscape when we’re building something.

Just another quick question. So what we’re talking about here, I just want to put a brand lens on it, right? If that’s okay.

So we’re talking about digital assets, are we? Or are we talking about more than digital assets? Are we talking about experiences, 3D worlds?

You sort of mentioned the Metaverse, there’s something that seems like… It could be anything digital, is it right?

We kind of skipped like what NFT is and the different types of NFTs.

Oh, let’s do that.

NFTs and why people buy them and all of that. So perhaps we take a step back.

Well, you got excited, Matt.

Let’s take a step back and maybe do some rapid fire, Kostas, because there’s a lot to cover. Like what’s a token? What’s an NFT?

What’s blockchain? What’s Bitcoin? What’s a wallet?

Those are like quick fire questions we can get off of that and then we can go into NFTs. So let’s talk about like what a token is.

Well, very simply explained. When I made a party for you, is it my token of appreciation for who you are as my friend? The token of appreciation, we all heard this term, right?

So I did something for you as a token of my appreciation. So the token, it can be an asset, it can be a currency, it can be an action, but the token refers to something that represents something, right? So the dollar is a token of monetary value exchange, right?

My friendship with Jacob is a token of appreciation for Jacob to me and me to Jacob, you know? And Matt, hopefully we’re gonna have tokens for you as well, my friend.

So the non-fungible tokens are actually the elements, the means to transact something, all right? So specifically for the NFT, non-fungible token, right? We go back to the word fungible and fungible means exchangeable, right?

So the dollar is exchangeable. You can give me one dollar, I can give another dollar back, right? This specific mat that I have is non-fungible.

It’s mine and I have like the market says my name, I can give it to you and you can give me the same back because you don’t have it. So that’s non-fungible. Mat is non-fungible.

I don’t have any other Matt Davies in the world. Kostas is non-fungible, Jacob is non-fungible. So whatever is not exchanged, it cannot be exchanged with the same token.

It’s non-fungible. So NFT, because everybody says, oh, I’m going to create NFTs. It’s kind of the wrong approach here.

It’s about saying, I’m going to create artwork which they’re going to have NFTs because the NFT means the record of ownership of an asset. That’s what NFT means. And it’s being translated in a non-fungible token.

So the token here is the record of ownership. Does it make sense? Or it was too all over the place.

Oh, that was really good. That really does make sense. And so where is this record kept, Kostas?

So we’re talking about the blockchain technology. You know, I don’t know if Jacob, that was your last question, but I can start talking about blockchain.

Yeah. Okay. I’m sorry.

I’m just causing absolute havoc to Jacob’s question.

No, those questions are actually interconnected. So that’s a good path here. So the blockchain, it’s a chain of blocks, as the word says, you know.

So what is a block? The block is a computer. We call it nodes.

When you say here the word nodes, what are nodes? You know, it’s computers. It’s people’s computers.

So those nodes, those blocks, those computers are linked to each other. That’s the blockchain. Now, what happens?

Let’s assume a very simple scenario. I created artwork, you know, and I want to put it on the blockchain. What exactly does it mean?

It means that this ownership record, it’s going to be broken down in many different elements, and it’s going to be distributed to all those blocks. So nobody can hack it, nobody can own it, but everybody can see it. And the thing with the blockchain is that everything is transparent.

Everything sees what’s going on, and that’s a beautiful thing. The other thing about the blockchain is like there’s not a middleman. There’s not a main server.

The blockchain is a technology that can connect multiple different computers, nodes, blocks, and spread out information with technology, NFT ownership, crypto, crypto coin transaction, on different computers with this unique technology. Then nobody can actually hack it, nobody can actually steal it because it’s getting distributed with not a mainframe, not the main server, because if it was on the server, the server is subject to be, let’s say, hacked. If it’s been on multiple computers, you have to break so much code, you have to be god actually in hacking to do that.

Maybe it’s a way to do it, but mostly with social engineering, not with actual engineering, but the technology, it’s so phenomenal because it creates those unique codes, you know? So all the records, all the transaction elements, they’re going spread out and they have the unique codes. And somehow the technology connects them in one element, but still it’s been distributed.

So that’s blockchain, a chain of blocks that when you send something there, it’s getting distributed to multiple computers and multiple blocks or multiple nodes and your information is spread out out there. But the record of this transaction is there. People can see it.

I think it’s if it’s not a revolutionary technology, I think it’s where the world’s going. I’m sending something to you, Matt, you know, there’s no paper in between us. There’s no Venmo between us.

There’s no anybody between us. I send it to you. But it’s not like I’m sending to you through, you know, like one transaction, it goes through blogs.

It goes through blogs so she can come to you through the blockchain technology. So that’s you have to think that in between us transactions, you have to think in a big web of different computers that you send information, you know, and it goes through so many things and comes to you. And it’s just the evolution.

It’s just that I will say that it’s revolution.

Awesome.

Matt, if you have a question, otherwise we can get into crypto and bitcoins and wallet, too, which is how, you know, it all works.

Do you understand so far, am I reaching your expectations?

Absolutely. I mean, just keep it simple. Like this is great.

I get it. I get it. So when I say I get it, I’m computing it.

I think I understand the words. If you said, do you understand blockchain? I’m like, I think I get the concept of it.

But do I actually understand it? That’s a different matter. But I think I understand the concept.

Yeah. But it’s like processes, right? You don’t have to understand how a computer works, but it does work and you understand the bits of it.

I like that.

I like that.

That’s where I’m going. That’s my philosophy today. All right.

Well, Bitcoin and crypto and wallets and how does that all work? And how does that intersect with the blockchain and NFTs?

Fascinating concept. Bitcoin money in code. It’s a monetary value token, which is coded.

That’s it. And somebody had this amazing idea to build this. But the revolution wasn’t about the digital coding about it.

It’s about the blockchain. The real fascinating thing here is the blockchain. You cannot have a Bitcoin, a digital money or whatever represents if there’s no blockchain.

I cannot send you a Bitcoin like come and get it. I have to do through the blockchain. So the blockchain is what supports everything here.

So with that being said, when Mr. Nakamoto in 2008, I think the end, he created this coding about digital money. It was about dismissing and banishing the middleman. Because the middleman, the banks, all these platforms are making crazy money.

And I get the concept of the middleman. We are brokers. We are selling other people’s services.

The middleman, it’s something that we, it’s historically a fact. But when the middleman is trying to take advantage of this transaction towards their own benefit, and I’m going to give you an example. Spotify, for instance, it’s an amazing marketing platform for musicians.

But I think the model is about, maybe I’m wrong. So forgive me, Spotify. 80 for Spotify, 20 for the artist.

So I’m an artist, that’s my life, and I give it to the platform. And the platform is taking most of the money I can make by telling you, but I give you these people, I give you the marketing. There must be a way here to figure out a better model.

And that’s the decentralization model. So the long scheme of things here is about understanding that anything in Bitcoin, in cryptocurrencies, and NFTs, and all the transaction, DeFi, decentralized finance, is about the blockchain. It’s all about the blockchain.

So we have to focus on the concept of no middlemen, no servers, not mainframes, just thousands of computers all over the world that takes information and breaks it down in pieces. That’s how Bitcoin applied the revolution to our world.

And the way you store Bitcoin, so wallets and things like that, how is that?

So what’s the process? In order to get to the crypto transaction world, to buy something, there are platforms, websites, and businesses that are accepting crypto coins. And there are so many crypto coins right now.

You have to have an exchange platform like Coinbase. So what’s Coinbase? Coinbase is like a bank account that stores your money.

Okay. So you have to have like an exchange software like Coinbase. And I’m using Coinbase because that’s what I’m using.

There are so many out there. But what I do is like, you have to make an account. They ask you for verification, who you are, put your license, you know, everything, your social security, you know, so it’s very legit, you know.

And then you’re connecting it with your bank, okay? So that’s the crypto exchange platform with your bank platform. And you connected it and say, I want, let’s say, to convert $100 from my bank account to make them Ethereum.

So the Ethereum is like right now on 2200. So $100 is 0.02 Ethereum, you know, there you go. So you just got 0.02 Ethereum minus the fees that the Coinbase is charging you for this service, you know, because that’s the other thing, the exchange is charging a lot of fees for this service.

And that’s something I think in the future is going to change as well. It’s going to be also decentralized. So you put money in crypto from your bank, right?

And then let’s say you want to start sending money, right? So you guys have to have the coin exchange as well so you can make this process to create crypto coins. But there’s a next step for all of us.

We have to create a crypto wallet. What’s a crypto wallet? Crypto wallet is this specific transaction software that actually you can take money from the crypto exchange platform like Coinbase and put it in the wallet.

Right now there are two famous wallets, the MetaMask and the Coinbase wallet, which I’m using as well. So what you do is like, okay, I want to send money to Jacob, you know? So what I need to do is to get my wallet to take some money from the money exchange, all right?

And I asked Jacob, what’s your crypto wallet address? All right, like what’s your email when you’re sending PayPal? And there is a unique address with multiple digits and letters.

He sends it to me, you know, and I put it sending to Jacob the code, that’s the amount of money, you know? And Jacob receives this amount of money, at least amount of crypto coins in his wallet. That’s the one part, the crypto wallet exchange between us, you know, as human and transacting money.

In the NFT world, you need to have a crypto wallet to make this transaction, right? So you need to have money of crypto inside your wallet. So you can go to a platform like OpenSea, which is the biggest platform right now.

It’s the most famous platform. It’s called opensea.io. It’s like the Amazon of NFTs.

You can find pretty much anything there for NFTs. And when you want to buy an NFT, you just have to have your crypto wallet connected with your OpenSea account. So you make an OpenSea account, it asks you who you are, what you do, your email, and your crypto wallet address.

It connects it. So every time you go and buy, you just transact through your crypto wallet. You don’t have to go back and forth with other banks and stuff.

That’s it, a crypto wallet. Now you’re going to tell me, can the coin exchange can do that between us? And why we need the crypto wallet and the coin exchange and all this stuff.

That’s how the system works. You know, there must be a software to convert money from the bank. And then it must be a system to take this converted money into transactional crypto money.

So that’s somehow how the world operates in the crypto world, transacting crypto coins and money.

So I just wanted to clarify with our listeners. We’ve talked about how it works, but I’ve actually gone through this process myself and how Kostas is explaining, like there’s a lot of theory behind it, but actually doing it is quite simple to do. It’s like you go to an account, you register, you put your information in, you click buy, and then you have your wallet, and then you go to another website and you can buy something.

That’s like how simple it is in theory. So you get overwhelmed by all this technical jargon because it is actually quite easy to do once you go and do it.

Yeah. Can I ask you a question, Jacob? So you’ve gone through this process.

Can I ask, how much does this stuff cost? How much is a crypto coin and stuff?

Well, it’s super volatile. So it’s up and down. It’s like a roller coaster every single day.

One day it’s like up 10% and then next week it’s down 10%. So it’s like, you’re rich and then you’re poor and then you’re rich and it goes up and down. And it’s really about what you’re comfortable investing your risk tolerance really, how much you want to put into crypto.

So that’s my view on it.

What’s that? It’s volatile. It’s supply and demand.

It’s like in the stock market, you know? So it’s like, think about the crypto world, transacting people with stocks. Are you going to transact only with stocks?

Stocks are volatile too. Things happen in the visual world, they change, you know? So imagine we all have like Tesla stocks and we’re transacting with Tesla because that’s the approved currency to transact.

It’s the same, you’re transacting through crypto coins. So imagine that crypto, the crypto world is like a stock market for the digital money that we talk, that we call them crypto. So yeah, that’s pretty much it.

So it’s very simple.

Like Jacob said, it’s very simple to make it. Yeah, so to simplify it even further.

Yeah, so to simplify it even further. Sorry, I’m over speaking. But to simplify it, right?

Coinbase is the American version. CoinSpot is an Australian version. I’m not sure if there’s one in the UK, but you go to that website, register, enter your details, hook up your bank and then click, buy crypto or buy Bitcoin or buy Ethereum or buy Savannah.

That’s how it happens. Then you can get an extension on Chrome or another browser called MetaMask. And that’s how you can connect to other websites.

So it’s basically a three-step process and that’s how you can use crypto on the web.

Wow, this is awesome. So I guess the reason I asked that question before, like how much does it cost and stuff like this, is just because I guess I’m living in an, I’m probably a really old granddad, right? So I’m living in this world where I don’t understand this, like I’ve not connected with it and I’m just trying to equate it to my old world.

So like, just for the sake of argument, like how much crypto can you buy for a dollar? Like, can I get one, five? I don’t know, how does it?

Yeah, so different, like the main coin is Bitcoin. And right now I think it’s about 30,000 something, you know? So if you want to buy one dollar of Bitcoin, it will be 0.000000001 Bitcoin, you know?

So it’s going to be very minimal, you know? Until you get to get one Bitcoin, which is 30,000. So you need to have 30,000 dollars, let’s say, to buy one Bitcoin.

But when you transact, let’s say, with a company, they accept Bitcoin, you know? They do the equation in dollars. So let’s say, this is, let’s say, $10,000.

That means it’s divided by three of the 30,000 Bitcoins. So you don’t have to have one Bitcoin. You have to have some Bitcoin to match the value.

So a lot of people, they say, how many Ethereum or Bitcoins have 1.3 Ethereum or 1.5 Bitcoin? Or they can have numbers like two or three Bitcoins, but in the crypto world, you’re gonna say, yeah, I have about 2.7, something like that, 3.5. So yeah, it’s kind of funny.

That’s really cool. Thank you. I just wanted to kind of get a heads up on that.

So the coin, you buy bits of the coins, that’s why I guess it’s called Bitcoin, right? I’m getting this now. Guys, I’m on fire.

And yeah, and then you transact on that. Amazing. Okay.

Thank you for explaining this. I hope the listeners like me are finding this fascinating because it is super interesting. Jacob, can I ask you a question?

Why did you, what made you step into this world apart from talking to Kostas? Why, did you just want to educate yourself or do you actually, have you got intentions to do business through this?

Yeah, so that was kind of where I was going to go with this. So there’s a saying, that’s the meme that’s floating around. It’s like, first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, and then they ask you which standard fee to buy.

So that’s what I did. I ignored it for a number of years. I actually bought a cryptocurrency course about two years ago, I never took it.

I wish I did, because it would have been worth a lot. Bitcoin would have been worth a lot more. But I pushed it aside, I pushed it aside, but it just got more mainstream.

Like everyone was talking about, like you couldn’t ignore it really. The news were talking about Bitcoin, it was going everywhere. And then by chance, I met Kostas a year or two ago in a summit, and I really connected with him there, and we got talking and we became internet friends.

And then, I think it was like a month or two ago, Kostas reached out to me again and said, well, I’ve got this awesome thing going on. And we chatted for about two hours, and then we had another two hour conversation. And he got me, he was literally educating me like he’s doing now.

And I was like, whoa, I totally get it now. This is awesome. I want to get involved.

So I bought my first crypto, went into this NFT world, I’m learning more about it. It’s a bloody deep, deep rabbit hole, kind of like brand. It’s exciting.

And then you start learning about, yeah, it’s so deep. And you start learning about all these other web three things. Like I mentioned at the start, like we haven’t even talked about the Metaverse yet, but that is so exciting to see where that can go and opportunities for brands.

And just imagine like going into a world and interacting with your favorite brand or like walking through a logo and it turns into a world. Like there’s so many cool things that could happen. And like big brands like McDonald’s, they’re trademarking things right now to like buy virtual goods and like you can go to banks and shop online and buy digital things and can buy a house next to Snoop Dogg.

Like there’s so many cool things happening. It’s like, but it’s so early, right? So I’m just like, I want to be on top of it.

And like Kostas said, like this trend, being on top of trends, like you can, if you’re in early, you can reap the benefits later on. So this was a shiny object that I saw a number of years ago, but I didn’t kind of pick it up because it is just another shiny object, but it got very bright. It was blinding me and I picked it up and now I’ve got it.

So that’s really how I got into it. And now we’re starting a DAO, as we mentioned at the start, which is going to help designers, creatives and artists and any creative in the future to get into this NFT Web3 world. So really passionate and excited about that.

Let’s talk about that. What is this DAO you speak of?

Yes. Well, I’ll leave that to Kostas to talk about that. But maybe before we do, because there’s things we need to talk about before we get into that in terms of NFTs, the types of NFTs, why people may buy them and the opportunities that it has for artists and creatives, because you see people selling NFTs.

And it’s not just digital artwork, there’s many other different types that people aren’t aware of. And I wasn’t aware of either. I was like, like you, Matt, like, can I just right click, save, save desktop, same thing?

No. So there’s lots of opportunities here and people can sell NFTs for a lot of money. So there’s a lot of incentive for creatives to get into this world, to have that financial freedom, to sell their goods to other people.

That’s the biggest opportunity here. So there’s the signals, so you can profit, you can support causes, you can join a community, you can collect art, you can use that as a status symbol as well. So there’s a lot of different things that come with an NFT.

And when you realize that, then that’s when it all starts to click. And I think you’ll see that by the end of this. And anyone listening, there’s a lot of opportunity here.

So thank you for asking, Matt. And I was there about a month ago. Like I didn’t know anything about this, but I’ve taken different courses and I’ve learned from different people and outreach to a lot of people.

And I put something out there, well, Kostas and I did a training, a free training, and tons of people registered for it. And we’re like, there’s something going on here. People are curious.

They want to know more. And they are interested. So that was a good sign for us that this has a lot of potential.

And that’s kind of why I said yes to Kostas, who created this style, which we’ll get into. So, yeah, thanks for asking. But as you can see, yeah, we’re excited.

Let’s talk about NFTs a little bit more, like what types they are, because this is a big roadblock for myself. It’s like, well, it’s the JPEG, you can save it, and it’s digital art going for millions of dollars. It doesn’t make sense.

Why are these things worth millions of dollars, and how does it all work? So maybe we just spend some time there, then we can get into opportunities for creators, listening to this, how do they get into it? How do they sell their work?

How do they tap into audiences? So there’s a lot of questions, I know. We’ll get to the DAO, Matt, so let’s talk about the NFTs.

So, NFTs, if we start with the most simple function of the NFT is like artwork, right? The most simple form of NFT. And it can be one piece of art, you know, like it’s called one for one.

And this artwork is unique. An artist has some prestige and he’s selling it, and people are running to claim the ownership of this artwork, right? So, that’s the most simple function.

And, you know, when people are collecting art, there are two types of collectors. There are the collectors collectors, that they’re taking stuff they want to showcase it in their beautiful house, or they’re collectors investors, that they’re holding what they want to hold, or they invest so they can resell it. So, some artwork has like a value, you know, I mean, the Picasso, the Van Gogh, that will be always valuable, right?

So, in that sense, there are some artists that are selling their artwork, and they are hoping the longevity of its value to be kind of as much as it can, so people can keep reselling it. And, you know, I mean, there is a term that we call it on NFT, it’s called flipping, like flipping houses, you know? You buy like a wreck, and you build it nice, you know, you buy it cheap, and then you make some adjustments, and boom, you sell it three times.

So the flipping is a very common term in NFT, and people are actually are professional flippers. What they’re doing is like, they’re doing the research about artists and about their landscape and about their, how big they are or how big they can be, you know? They see, they have a unique eye or they have a unique system to identify, to appreciate, they say, okay, I can definitely see this artwork going up, I’m gonna buy it.

You buy it and then after two months, you buy it, you sell it like for more money. So that’s a very simple form of an NFT artwork, you know? Somebody selling it, some people want to keep it for them, say, hey, I have this artwork, it’s mine, you know, well done, or I resell it for more money.

Then we have the collectibles. It can be a series of artwork. A lot of artists can be very creative.

It can be an artwork that has like many different episodes. So imagine an artist that he has like a serious, a season one of his artwork, you know, it has like many episodes. They can create many different episodes of this artwork and they can create a story and they can create a concept and people can say, I love this.

I love this concept, I love the project. I want to be a part of it in some capacity. So to become a member of this effort, you know, they started connecting with the artists and the artists try to give them more benefits.

And this is where I call the utility NFT. So from a simple artwork, the NFTs are becoming like not only valuable assets per file or whatever reason, it’s also that you have the ability to give access to more things to people. And this is what we call a utility NFT.

So when you buy, let’s say artwork from an artist, when you buy it, you get access to have a coffee with this artist, that’s called utility, all right? Or when you buy something, you know, you get access, free access to the next collectible series before the rest of the people. So you’re gonna be able to buy regardless because you have access.

So this is called utility. So think about how many different applications you can have around our artwork and create so many different parts and features. So it’s a life, it’s a life, it’s an artwork, it’s a life, it gives you more access to more things.

There is a lot of sports collectibles, you know, there’s a lot of specific small videos of a specific magic moment that somebody capture and somebody selling it and say, I own this specific, this special moment. And it gets value because collectors of habits are saying that’s a rare element, you know, the value is gonna go up and then things are, you know, start getting more value and people are running and say, I want to be a part of it, you know. And the thing that I said to be a part of it, it’s a big concept here because everybody, it’s not about just buying an NFT.

People want to be a part of what the artists or the teams are creating as concepts, as perks, as utilities, you know, communities. So people want to just not just buying NFTs, they want to be a part of something. So this is the evolution then of the NFT world.

People are making NFT brands now, they’re making NFT projects, they have a story behind it, they have like a vision, they have a mission, they have a roadmap, what they want to do. We start with a collection and we’re gonna, in three years, we’re gonna have our own Metaverse. So they have a roadmap to communicate.

The people say, okay, this is like a stock, this is like a stock that is gonna grow, you know? So I want to invest, I want to buy an NFT because eventually I’m gonna be a part of something bigger. So that’s a very simple way to explain the benefits of buying an NFT and be a part of the NFT situation of the specific vendor.

Then we have like music, okay? You can make an NFT with music, a specific, let’s say sound that you capture, you know, and you just sell it because it’s very valuable. You have a story.

It can be, and then we have the profile pictures. Have you heard, Matt, about the CryptoPunks and the Bored Apes? Have you heard about those profile pictures?

It made me feel so old, Kostas, because no.

Awesome. So here’s the beautiful thing. So there is like artwork that is being generating more artwork around one basic character.

So you have designed an artwork of an ape or a monkey, you know, and then you just started creating things around the monkey, a hat, sunglasses, a Jedi sword, a backpack, and you start creating what we call traits. Now there is some coding behind that you can create multiple characters with a basic character to have the traits to randomize and create different, you know, green shirt with red hat, green hat with blue shirt, and so on. So the software or the coding or the script, it generates 10,000, let’s say, artwork.

And people are going there and then they try to be a part of it and they want to buy one of the 10,000, you know? So there is a lot of buzz about the board apes and the CryptoPunks. CryptoPunks was the first and it was like a pixelated punk.

And it’s called CryptoPunk, you know, like some jewelry, somebody was pixelated. Like it’s like blurry image and they have been sold like for $2 million, $3 million. And it has been bought by people in the tech and they have it on the profile picture on Twitter.

And they know people know say, oh, he has the CryptoPunk number three. That’s a rare one. So the discussion changes now, you know?

So NFT is also a signal of status for some people, you know? I bought the number one of the collection, you know? It means something.

It means something based on the people who build it and the story behind it and everything. Yeah. So then we have artwork.

Actually, we have real estate in NFT, right? And that’s interesting. He says before Jacob about Snoop Dogg’s house.

You can have a house next to him. So Decentraland, it’s a platform like a map, like not just a dragon or a video game. And it has blocks.

And you go and you click this block and it tells you how much it is, and you buy it. And you buy land on a digital landscape. And Decentraland is the most famous one because big artists like Snoop Dogg bought a mansion.

They made a mansion there. And other brands, they’re building their own places. Kentucky Fried Chicken has a Kentucky Fried Chicken somewhere in the central land.

And people are going crazy over to own a digital land. Listen, I mean, we can be subjectively judgmental, but the market speaks the truth. And there is a demand there.

It’s happening. So for me, I just admire it. In the beginning, you know?

It’s so interesting, Kostas. And you said something that really resonated with me a moment ago, which was, you said for some people, this is status, right? Or status.

And I think I understand that as a brand person, okay? So, you know, let’s just take a very stupid example, but an example I give sometimes to my clients. Like you could buy a handbag for 50 pounds, or I suppose $50, right?

Or you could buy a handbag for 1,500 pounds, right? Now they do the same thing. They look exactly the same, but why do you spend more on one than the other?

Well, because you place more value in the Gucci handbag than you do in, which is the higher price one, than you do in the other one. Why? Because it builds your identity and gives you status or status.

So I can kind of see how, as humans, we attach value to things, even if it’s a digital thing, even if we don’t really need that for life support, right? But we like to have that because it does give us a certain status. Would you say, Kostas, that it’s interesting you mentioned some mainstream brands there, you mentioned KFC and Snoop Dogg and stuff, but do you see this mainly as a very, and I don’t know how to put this delicately, but I’m going to say it and you can shoot me in a minute, but is this quite a geeky thing?

Is this a world of lots of guys and girls on computers in their bedrooms tapping away? Because I just don’t see for me, maybe I’m just the wrong type of person, like how that would give me any status. If I went to talk to anyone I know, they’d just be like, Matt, you’re weird spending loads of money on that stuff.

But in a different world and an online connected community, that probably does lend weight to this and status. What are your thoughts on that? And please, I don’t mean any insult to anyone out there.

If you own the bit of digital land next to Snoop Dogg, respect, but I’m just kind of just trying to put that out there, provoke Kostas a bit. Is this a geek thing or is this mainstream? Is it going to go mainstream?

It is mainstream, but it became mainstream by geeks.

Geeks are all the world, man. I’m not against it.

I’m a geek. I’m a geek. But it started from a geeky world and now it became mainstream.

More and more people are coming in.

Well, Jacob’s coming, so it must be mainstream now, right?

He has some geeky. I can sense some geekiness from Jacob, but…

He’s also a slightly earlier doctor as well. Yeah, all good.

My grandma and my granddad eventually be buying crypto, do you think?

Yes, I think so. Because once they understand the power of decentralization and the blockchain, everybody has some sort of revolution inside of them. We don’t want to give more money to the people that have so much money anymore for more money because they’re helping us with the service.

Now we have options and one of the options is decentralization. So the more the education and the knowledge is out there for the people, the more people are going to jump in. And I think Crypto Coin is here to stay, the cryptocurrencies, and eventually everything that’s around the cryptocurrencies based on the decentralization concept and based on the blockchain concept, more and more people are going to jump in and say, okay, let me explore.

And that’s the first step. Let’s explore.

And it’s becoming more accessible now. There are methods of just using a credit card to buy crypto or you can even get an NFT from a vending machine. So there’s new things coming out all the time.

This is new and I think it’s going to get more accessible as time goes on. Right now, there’s a huge barrier to entry. We’ve been talking for an hour and there’s still so many questions and to educate people on this, just to get into this Web3 world, NFTs and crypto and everything.

We need a part two. We need a part two of this. Can I just ask a really quick question?

Let’s put a brand lens on this just for a second. Let’s say I’ve got a brand. Say I’m a consumer goods brand.

Say I’m Gucci. We mentioned Gucci earlier. This world opens up such an interesting landscape to me, doesn’t it?

Because if my customer base sees value in things that I’m creating and if it helps them build their status, then it doesn’t matter if I’m making physical handbags or I’m creating digital experiences if they want to own it. And then build their identity around it. So I think I get it, but have you got any examples of where brands are starting to get into this space, Kostas?

And what sort of things are businesses and brands doing?

Well, the biggest example, the loudest example I can give is Adidas. Adidas, what they did is they went with this brand called Bored Apes, which is like a collection of different apes and different traits and whatever you can think of. A lot of famous people, they have a Bored Ape at their showcases, they have a Bored Ape, talking about $400,000 and $500,000.

We’re talking about crazy money here. So Adidas did a collaboration with them. It’s a paid collaboration, of course, for those Bored Apes to wear virtual Adidas clothing.

So now you buy something, you have like this special edition of Adidas hoodie, and you have a Bored Ape with a special edition of Adidas hoodie. So if you just try to channel this small example, you can understand how brands can collaborate or can create value for their brand. You create a virtual, let’s say, NFT of a Gucci bag and say, once you buy this NFT, you will get the actual access with a very big discount for you as somebody we appreciate as a client.

You have the digital file. We can give you also the real one for this digital file, maybe at a better price or maybe we just give you an access because it’s a limited edition. So there’s so many different things.

You just have to be creative. But you have to understand there are five reasons and the brands understand those reasons why people buy NFT. There are five reasons, okay?

So let’s go with the first. It’s people who appreciate creativity in art. I mean, somebody who doesn’t understand design or creativity, they wouldn’t be able to understand how to buy a board, or a crypto bank, or something of design.

They don’t care. So you have to appreciate the creative aspect of the art, okay? It signals status.

It’s very strong. The status thing is very strong here. Because once you find a big project in the NFT world that you can relate to for your own reasons or for the market reasons, say, I need to be a part of this.

And once what it means, like, I’m going to get this artwork and I’m going to showcase it, then I’m going to feel good. Status. Boom.

Make a profit. It’s one of the elements why people buy NFTs. So the brands are for profit.

They’re not non-profit. So the brands, they’re just not showcasing things. People in the NFT world, they buy, they’re flipping, they’re reselling.

So the profit is huge here. It’s huge. But another interesting element, so we have three right now.

We have the appreciate creation and creativity and art. We have the signal status, and we have the profit making. Make profit.

The fourth one, I think it’s beautiful one, is support the cause.

Ah, that’s interesting.

Or a creator. So let’s say somebody, he has aspiration, has a big project, or he wants to sell the NFT so he can build shelters for homeless with his money. People will say, you know what?

That’s a beautiful thing. And because the transactional elements here are so transparent, there’s no shady things here. You put the money and those money are going to be allocated exactly for the cause you have assigned the money to go to through decentralization, through the blockchain.

So, or support the creator, you know, because the creator say, guys, let’s say I’m broke, please help me, you know, and I’m a friend of yours. So yes, we create any kind of course, any kind of possible thing you can relate to. So that’s a very big part also why people buy NFT.

And the last one, the last one, there may be more though, but these are the ones that I have identified, is to join a community. Join a community with other people who like board apes. Join a community who like the specific art that I like.

Connect with the people based on the similar variables and the similar traits of the world. So that’s how we connect with each other. We need to have a connecting issue element.

Otherwise, there’s no reason to connect with somebody who has different ideas. We can say hi, we’re going to be friends, but there’s no reason to connect further. But the people that they’re in the same community, that’s a big factor.

Join a community is huge in the NFT world. So everybody, when they try to build an NFT project, they try to build a community around the project, around themselves, the brand, the cause. So everything is interconnected.

So I hope that gives you some clarity, Matt.

Yeah, it really has. It’s been amazing to talk to you. And, you know, frankly, I mean what I say.

I think we’re going to have to think about how we could build a part two in at some stage, Jacob, because there’s so many more questions. And, you know, I just think a lot. You just touched on five things there, building community, huge from a brand perspective, status, huge.

These are massive themes that we’ve understood from a brand perspective as being valuable to people for a while, you know, supporting a cause, purpose driven brands. All of this stuff is very interesting. I think what it does, as you’ve rightly pointed out, is put the power into the hands of people as well.

So there’s a whole other aspect that I think would be very interesting to explore, which is, well, will this see the breakup is centralization? Will it see the breakup of big, massive corporations and start allowing us to connect more with individuals and things like that? This could be, this is massive.

So I want to thank you so much for wetting my appetite, dipping my toe into this.

It’s the journey, Matt.

Yeah, it’s a journey. My bags are still packed. You know, we’ve got to keep going.

But I hope the listeners have also enjoyed this. Was there anything final, Kostas, that you, you know, perhaps we’ve not touched on or anything sort of that you wanted to just sort of…

I haven’t asked about the DAO, Matt. Oh, what?

Let’s finish on the DAO.

What is that? That’s why we can have a part two, but I can tell you some things about the DAO, which is very simple, you know. Very, very, I’m going to narrow it down in very simple words.

A DAO, it’s a company. So imagine when you want to make a startup, you know, you hire an accountant to do the paperwork, you know, and maybe a legal counsel, you know, or you have to apply the papers in the organizations accordingly, the tax, whatever, you know, when you build a company, it’s not like something that you do it and say, oh, I have a company. You have to go through some steps.

The DAO means decentralized autonomous organization, and autonomy is very important here, and decentralization is very important. What does it mean? Is that through a smart contract?

Okay, because we have a really analyzed smart contract, but people can really maybe identify a little bit the meaning. It’s you make a company by laying down some rules, and those rules that the members of this DAO agree on, they go on the blockchain. So you create a company in the blockchain, and all the rules and the guidelines, they live on the blockchain.

It’s not something like to say, let’s talk to our lawyer about it, or let’s talk to our accountant. We agreed on some things, and we can find them in the blockchain to revisit. So let’s say accountability on a business, it’s kind of important.

You know how much effort you put and how much effort we put. This should be written down in the guidelines of the DAO in the blockchain. So everybody somehow is making a pledge with each other based on the commonality of the vision.

So it’s all about the vision here, it’s not about egos. And that’s why me and Jacob were connected very well, because what we’re building, this creative community we’re building, we’re building a DAO with other creatives. So they know that it’s not about us applying what we think, it’s about what we all agree on based on the vision though.

So I think that’s the revolution of business. The DAO, the Centralized Autonomous Organization, it’s the evolution and the revolution of business. And it’s also very easy when you make a nice plan about your business, the DAO, to attract investors, because the investors now, they know what’s going on.

And the money that go in the DAO, they go in the blockchain. Everything is transparent. So transparency here is huge, huge, because everybody sees what’s going on.

Everybody knows where the money goes. There’s not like, oh, I have like to buy something, I’m going to the DAO bank and I take it off. There’s nothing like that.

Everything is specific when people are getting money, when people are getting, we’re putting money in, we’re putting money out, the rules. So it’s, I think, the revolution of the business. Now, because you guys are branding experts, I had a question that I actually remembered, and that’s when I’m going to close, about the people say, but I’m not an artist, how I can do something on the NFT.

There is a big need in the NFT community for marketing and branding. So slowly, slowly, I can see a huge shift from branding experts and marketing experts to help those artists, those NFT designers, to build a brand, to do some marketing. So there’s a huge opportunity for all of us, we are creatives and we have some expertise, to apply it in the Web3 landscape.

I hope that makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely. So there’s opportunity there for our designers or brand designers to become brand designers for other people that want to get into Web3. It’s a little bit meta in that way, but it’s really just helping others.

So yeah, we’re excited about that. So where can people find out more information about this down?

So we’re going to launch in one, I mean, by the time we’re going to have this on, it’s going to be on the www.v4.rest. So the whole world, the whole world is the forest. What we’re trying to connect here is the forest, but it’s the 4.rest on www.

So T-H-E-F-O dot rest, is that right?

Yes. So it’s like this new millennial domain. It’s maybe temporary.

We’re going to find, we have like our blockchain domains, which is still subject to change eventually, but for now it’s www.the4.rest. They can pre-sign up for a launch and everything. And yeah, maybe we’re going to see Matt on our community.

Yeah, I’ll have to explore.

I’m just trying to worry about like, how do I explain this to my wife? This is going to be, I need to educate myself. She holds the purse strings, if you know what I mean.

This is why, as you say, Jacob, it is quite a big barrier to entry because you’ve got to understand a few concepts before you can get into this. But hey, we understand banking. We understand, as you rightly pointed out, Kostas, we understand business.

We understand that this is not something that’s always that easy. And if it’s worth it, we’ll do it. So thank you, Kostas, for beginning the journey of educating Matt Davies and the listeners, as well as yourself, Jacob, for sharing your experiences and sharing this moment.

It’s been a brilliant conversation. Thank you.

Thank you. It was a big pleasure for me. So I’m looking forward for more discussion, Matt.

So thank you so much for having me in this beautiful, beautiful episode.

Thank you. I also just want to close out saying that we’re super early in this whole world. So it’s not too late to join.

You can learn the basics, invest some time into learning about Web3 and crypto because it’s not going anywhere. You can set up your wallet. You can find your way into communities such as the forest, which will be launching soon.

And just, I guess, participate in a way that aligns with your risk tolerance. You don’t have to go all in. Just double your feet and explore collections and explore the art world and explore the Web3 world.

And that’s really how you’re going to get into it. And the Metaverse is going to be huge in a number of years. And just imagine what your brand could be like, or someone that you work for.

What does that experience look like in a mixed reality world or in VR? It’s just, yeah, it’s mind-blowing.

You’re totally blowing my mind.

Yeah, really. Right.

You heard it here, folks. You heard it here first, folks, probably, for some of you like me. I heard it on my own podcast first here.

So it’s been good. NFTs, we’ve done Web3. We’ve scraped the surface, though.

Something tells me this is big. It’s coming. There’s going to be more of it.

So keep your ears to the ground. We’d love to hear back from you. How did you find this episode?

If we get Kostas on again, what would you like us to ask him? Let us know. Let me or Jacob know.

We know all our social channels. Connect with us, LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter. Jacob’s everywhere.

He will take any of your questions. We’ll put them in a big spreadsheet. We’ll get Kostas back and we will ask him all your questions.

Thank you, everyone, for listening. Thank you, Kostas. Thank you, Jacob.

See you next time.

Bye bye. Thank you guys. Have a good one.

Bye bye.